A lot of the Church's strengths go back directly to Joseph Smith's original teachings--the emphasis on education (which he shared with and inherited from Protestant, and especially Calvinist, Christianity); the preference for city life, (embodied in the plat for the City of Zion, with farmers living in town and working outside); the communal economic sensibility embodied in the United Order, whose remnant lingers in our welfare system; and the close-knit social order and organized sharing of civic responsibilities that reigns in our wards and stakes, and which includes our insistent blurring of the boundaries between sacred and secular, between spiritual and temporal.
Really appreciate this perspective — I think you're exactly right that many of the LDS Enclave's strengths are rooted in foundational teachings and structures from early church history. The emphasis on education, community life, and integrated civic-religious responsibility created a framework that still shapes outcomes today, even if many members aren't consciously aware of those origins.
I want to read more history on the United Order and early Utah LDS history to better understand things today.
Great analysis. I would encourage to elaborate a bit more on gender pay differences. Many researchers have found that personal choices explain the differences, not gender. The debate revolves around whether the gap is primarily due to different job choices, career interruptions for family care, or other factors. Please see: https://www.cato.org/commentary/gender-pay-gap-myth-wont-go-away
That’s a fair point — and I agree that many pay disparities can be tied to job type and time out of the workforce. That’s especially relevant in the LDS Enclave, where high birthrates often mean longer career interruptions for women.
At the same time, I think it’s also fair to ask: Even if those gaps are largely driven by personal choices, what kind of environment would you rather live and work in — one where most leadership and high-paying roles are held by men, or one with more gender balance? And what kind of environment would a woman focused on her career choose to live in?
Outcomes shape culture, opportunity, and belonging — and that matters, too. I appreciate you sharing the article — I’ll give it a read later today.
I think we all agree that positions should be filled by the most-qualified. Quotas damage those who are qualified but happen to be in one of the "protected" categories.
Gale, without having read the article you attached, I wonder how much of the "myth" in the title is based on some sort of Marxist analysis, which insists on the insidious influences of social structures at the expense of explanations based on individual choices. Marxism, of course, comes out of the same historical matrix has Mormonism; so it's interesting to see how differently these two intellectual and social movements understood the social issues of their time, and how differently they proposed to resolve them. I apologize for the obvious randomness of this comment.
While Marx and Joseph Smith share a similar historical period, their philosophies are dramatically different. Please read the article on gender gaps and share your analysis.
I think a lot members aren't aware how heavily Mutual Aid plays into gospel culture; if they learned about mutual aid strictly in secular contexts, they'd almost certainly cry "communism!" Bringing a casserole to someone recovering from surgery with no barter? Babysitting a newborn for free to "give mom and dad a break"? Sacrificing 10% of your earnings for others without expectation of in-kind compensation? Those behaviors are not compatible with the dog-eat-dog/survival-of-the-fittest/social darwinism mentality of modern economics and political rhetoric. But if presented in those terms, I think a lot of members would rebuff the very notion.
Hey Alex, you know what I think would be really cool? An in-depth look at the comparisons between LDS Enclaves and Evangelical Hubs; which metrics we most disagreed on, most closely agreed, whether there are any discernable patterns in them, etc. This series has gotten me super interested!
Hey Jordan - I think you're right about that tension. I'd love to see a world where instead of being introduced earlier, the church established a united order today. Would there be hesitancy, acceptance?
For ideas agreed and disagreed on between LDS and Evangelical areas, you should check out my first post if you haven't already. I don't focus on it as much as this post, but it has both the evangelical and LDS numbers in each chart focusing on political views.
Oh yeah, I read that article! I was just thinking a deeper dive into that relationship specifically. LDS Enclaves on one axis, Evangelical Hubs on the other, that sort of thing. The comparison is discussed in the text and can be inferred by the bar graphs in the article, but I'd love to see whether those differences are statistically significant or not and in what way. I'm not a statistician or data analyst, so these ideas may be a load of hogwash!
A lot of the Church's strengths go back directly to Joseph Smith's original teachings--the emphasis on education (which he shared with and inherited from Protestant, and especially Calvinist, Christianity); the preference for city life, (embodied in the plat for the City of Zion, with farmers living in town and working outside); the communal economic sensibility embodied in the United Order, whose remnant lingers in our welfare system; and the close-knit social order and organized sharing of civic responsibilities that reigns in our wards and stakes, and which includes our insistent blurring of the boundaries between sacred and secular, between spiritual and temporal.
Really appreciate this perspective — I think you're exactly right that many of the LDS Enclave's strengths are rooted in foundational teachings and structures from early church history. The emphasis on education, community life, and integrated civic-religious responsibility created a framework that still shapes outcomes today, even if many members aren't consciously aware of those origins.
I want to read more history on the United Order and early Utah LDS history to better understand things today.
I’m writing that book fyi!
Great analysis. I would encourage to elaborate a bit more on gender pay differences. Many researchers have found that personal choices explain the differences, not gender. The debate revolves around whether the gap is primarily due to different job choices, career interruptions for family care, or other factors. Please see: https://www.cato.org/commentary/gender-pay-gap-myth-wont-go-away
That’s a fair point — and I agree that many pay disparities can be tied to job type and time out of the workforce. That’s especially relevant in the LDS Enclave, where high birthrates often mean longer career interruptions for women.
At the same time, I think it’s also fair to ask: Even if those gaps are largely driven by personal choices, what kind of environment would you rather live and work in — one where most leadership and high-paying roles are held by men, or one with more gender balance? And what kind of environment would a woman focused on her career choose to live in?
Outcomes shape culture, opportunity, and belonging — and that matters, too. I appreciate you sharing the article — I’ll give it a read later today.
I think we all agree that positions should be filled by the most-qualified. Quotas damage those who are qualified but happen to be in one of the "protected" categories.
Gale, without having read the article you attached, I wonder how much of the "myth" in the title is based on some sort of Marxist analysis, which insists on the insidious influences of social structures at the expense of explanations based on individual choices. Marxism, of course, comes out of the same historical matrix has Mormonism; so it's interesting to see how differently these two intellectual and social movements understood the social issues of their time, and how differently they proposed to resolve them. I apologize for the obvious randomness of this comment.
While Marx and Joseph Smith share a similar historical period, their philosophies are dramatically different. Please read the article on gender gaps and share your analysis.
I think a lot members aren't aware how heavily Mutual Aid plays into gospel culture; if they learned about mutual aid strictly in secular contexts, they'd almost certainly cry "communism!" Bringing a casserole to someone recovering from surgery with no barter? Babysitting a newborn for free to "give mom and dad a break"? Sacrificing 10% of your earnings for others without expectation of in-kind compensation? Those behaviors are not compatible with the dog-eat-dog/survival-of-the-fittest/social darwinism mentality of modern economics and political rhetoric. But if presented in those terms, I think a lot of members would rebuff the very notion.
Hey Alex, you know what I think would be really cool? An in-depth look at the comparisons between LDS Enclaves and Evangelical Hubs; which metrics we most disagreed on, most closely agreed, whether there are any discernable patterns in them, etc. This series has gotten me super interested!
Hey Jordan - I think you're right about that tension. I'd love to see a world where instead of being introduced earlier, the church established a united order today. Would there be hesitancy, acceptance?
For ideas agreed and disagreed on between LDS and Evangelical areas, you should check out my first post if you haven't already. I don't focus on it as much as this post, but it has both the evangelical and LDS numbers in each chart focusing on political views.
Here is the link if you are interested: https://mormonmetrics.substack.com/p/what-are-the-most-important-political
Oh yeah, I read that article! I was just thinking a deeper dive into that relationship specifically. LDS Enclaves on one axis, Evangelical Hubs on the other, that sort of thing. The comparison is discussed in the text and can be inferred by the bar graphs in the article, but I'd love to see whether those differences are statistically significant or not and in what way. I'm not a statistician or data analyst, so these ideas may be a load of hogwash!
.
Regarding the gender pay gap, are the numbers only counting those with jobs or are women who choose not to work included?
Here is more info on how it was calculated (the data shown is aggregated from the American Communities project):
"""Ratio of women's median earnings to men's median earnings for all full-time, year-round workers, presented as "cents on the dollar." """
So this is only counting women working full-time and year round.
Here is a link for more info where the American Communities Project got its data on the gender gap:
https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/health-data/community-conditions/social-and-economic-factors/income-employment-and-wealth/gender-pay-gap?year=2025
.
Well, darn.